Megasquirt owners thread

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Cus
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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Cus » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:24 pm

I'm in the same boat as Lachy.

My MAT correction table has a pretty wild slope to it, and I notice a difference in AFRs depending on the tempreature. With the weather we've been having testing 40degC and 20degC intake temps in the space of a couple of days is actually possible, and results in crazy sh!t going on with the AFRs.

But I've also decided to completely re-jig my AFR target table, then start again....

This is what I've come up with, after some reading and some copy/paste/interpolation activities:
Image

How do we collectively feel about this for an AFR Target table?

2k RPM is motoring around at 60, 3100RPM is cruising at 100

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Red_Bullet » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:51 pm

At a quick glance your AFR table looks pretty sensible, based upon what I'm running. Got mine from reading MT. Certainly doesn't strike me as being unusual.Looks pretty reasonable actually, but being way down the track tuning to my AFR I'm not about to change targets. Too much investment of time. I'm quite willing to share my msq with anybody interested.

I did have hot start issues which now are looking better. It wouldn't hot start, then ran really lean idle after starting for a short time after. (heatsoak?) I think the flattiish (from Braineac) MAT correction fixed this, (Default MAT table was pulling far too much fuel at higher AIT temps) also heavily reduced fuel while cranking, it was too rich while cranking and the initial pulse was way too big. Rich then lean.

I'm heading off the Phillip island for the weekend so will not be able to contribute again until Wednesday next week.

I converted Braineacs Mat table from Fahrenheit to Celsius. It looks like this.
-40 106.3
-20 103.8
0 101.8
15 100
30 99
45 98.5
60 98
90 97.5
120 97

I haven't had time to do anymore scatter plots though.

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Red_Bullet » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:38 pm

NOTE MAT correction table is for MS3Pro. I believe ms1 and ms2 table may work differently! Earlier info indicates that MAT correction in earlier systems may be an offset table to the inbuilt ideal gas law.

The data above is for MS3Pro and is the whole MAT correction table!!!

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby ManiacLachy » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:44 am

Cus wrote:I'm in the same boat as Lachy.

My MAT correction table has a pretty wild slope to it, and I notice a difference in AFRs depending on the tempreature. With the weather we've been having testing 40degC and 20degC intake temps in the space of a couple of days is actually possible, and results in crazy sh!t going on with the AFRs.

But I've also decided to completely re-jig my AFR target table, then start again....

This is what I've come up with, after some reading and some copy/paste/interpolation activities:

How do we collectively feel about this for an AFR Target table?

2k RPM is motoring around at 60, 3100RPM is cruising at 100

What a co-incidence, I too am taking another run at my AFR map (and subsequently my VEs)! Yours looks good, I reckon you could even go a bit leaner at cruise though.

If you're going to re-tune VE, and you haven't already maybe enable "Incorporate AFR". Will make it much easier in the future to tweak AFR as it will adjust your VE to suit (or close to).

I recently found [url]trubokitty.com[/url] While it's geared more as a guide to build Megasquirts, it's made by Braineak and has his basemaps! I wouldn't suggest loading them to your ecu, as your ecu will likely be different to his, but I've been using them (by loading them into a test project in TS, while disconnected) as a reference for things I'm struggling with, such as MAT Correction, Voltage Correction, etc.

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Cus » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:56 pm

ManiacLachy wrote:I reckon you could even go a bit leaner at cruise though.

It turns out, I can! I ran my latest log (without adjustest AFR targets) over my latest MSQ (with the adjusted AFR targets) .... don't do this! My AFRs in cruise were 16.5 which means the VE Analyse completely missed the intended target of 15.5 ... the good news though, the car seemed to run fine!

I continue along the path of learning, and hopefully, not breaking things :)

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby ManiacLachy » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:57 pm

16.5 might be a littttle too lean :shock:

But back up a bit, explain this:
Cus wrote:I ran my latest log (without adjustest AFR targets) over my latest MSQ (with the adjusted AFR targets)


I don't understand. You can compare a log to a tune?

I've just whipped up a new AFR target map, and adjusted my low rpm/load spark maps for additional resolution at low vacuum. Tomorrow or Sunday morning I've got some VE and general idle tuning to do (map obviously isn't loaded yet)

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby NitroDann » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:17 pm

16.5 is fine <60kpa

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby StanTheMan » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:24 am

ManiacLachy wrote:16.5 might be a littttle too lean :shock:

But back up a bit, explain this:
Cus wrote:I ran my latest log (without adjustest AFR targets) over my latest MSQ (with the adjusted AFR targets)


I don't understand. You can compare a log to a tune?

I've just whipped up a new AFR target map, and adjusted my low rpm/load spark maps for additional resolution at low vacuum. Tomorrow or Sunday morning I've got some VE and general idle tuning to do (map obviously isn't loaded yet)



Once you've done some tuning of VE or adjusting VE because of other changes, You want to check how acurate your tune or changes are.
When the AFR targets get switched off your driving your car without the aid of the O2 trying to hit the AFR target.
In the logs you can see where your AFR is and where it is supposed to be. On a perfectly tuned table, You can throw your 02 sensor out.

With scatter plots the pros can tell a good tune to a bad one within seconds. Us virgins this will take considerably longer
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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Cus » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:23 pm

ManiacLachy wrote:But back up a bit, explain this:
Cus wrote:I ran my latest log (without adjustest AFR targets) over my latest MSQ (with the adjusted AFR targets)


I don't understand. You can compare a log to a tune?


You sure can!
Sorta...
Not really.

This is what I meant, the whole process, skipping exactly no steps.

_________________________________________________________________________________

Make sure the logging in TunerStudio (TS) is logging every available field, all of them.

Image

Set your power management on your laptop to blank the screen instead of hibernating when you close the lid while on battery, plug it into the car, open TS, press CTRL-L ("Start logging" hotkey) give the logfile a name, put the laptop on the passenger seat, closed and upside down, with the USB pointed towards the front of the car. This bit is important, if you rail around a corner and the computer slides into something on the USB side, it'll break the USB port, so point it off the seat (guess how I know that! :lol: ). Upside down laptops have more efficient cooling than right-side-up laptops, and TS uses a bit of CPU power on my machine, so it gets hot.

Go driving for as long as the laptop battery will let you.

CTRL-B will stop logging - try and do this before the laptop goes flat. If the power management on your laptop isn't up to scratch (or the battery goes flat faster than your OS is anticipating, you may get a truncated logfile, which is all kinds of useless)

Open the log in MegaLogViewer (MLV) - if you have the licensed version, you have access to unlimited log sizes (40Mb takes a while to process though) if it's unregistered, you'll only get about 3 minutes worth of log analysis. (5000 records)

In MLV go to the View option, and make sure "Tuning console" is selected.

It should look like this:

Image

Then, press "Open Tune" on the right, and find your CurrentTune.MSQ

Then press "VE Analyze" over on the right, and you'll get a screen like the following:

Image

Lambda Signal Delay is a bit of voodoo I'm yet to fully jive with, but basically lower numbers tune high-RPM cells better, higher numbers are more accurate in the low-RPM cells. I usually leave it at 1 or 2 and don't worry about it.

Set your CLT filter to just above wherever your WUE turns off in TS. I don't think this is entirely required, but it motivates me to warm the car up first, and I'm more likely to be tuning against a heat-soaked car, which is how the car runs most of the time.

Once you're happy, press "Run Analysis" and you'll get something like this:

Image

Press OK. If you put your mouse over the red and blue numbers on the left side, it'll tell you how many hits a cell had (how often the ECU was in that cell) and what the initial value was, so you can get an idea of how much of a change is about to be made. It's always goof to check this to make sure you're not about to use a tune where it's pulled 20% out of a cell or something silly. I've never see a change that big, but double-checking is alot cheaper than rebuilding an engine :)

Once you've had a look around the proposed new table, press Accept Table, then Save Tune. (or Save As)

If you have TS running in the background (I always do) it will ask you if you want to load the changes in CurrentTune.MSQ. Say yes. Then let it update on the car, then go way back to the start, and take a new log of some driving.

Once you've got a new log, go back to MLV, and load your log.

Image

You'll want to be viewing RPM/VSS/MAP/TPS on one graph, and AFR/AFR Target/AFR Error in another graph. (I have Duty Cycle in there too, and you don't need VSS, but it makes it a boatload easier to find relevant parts of the logs for review)

So, in the above log you can see I'm cruising just below 100km/h, my AFR Target is 16.0, my actual AFR is 15.2 and my AFR Error is -0.8 which means at this exact point in the log, I'm richer than I want to be. (you don't really need the error field, but it makes it easier)

That's the comparison I was talking about :)

From here, you can VE analyse again, and it'll be closer to the target (Mine is so far off because I still haven't dialled it right in after changing my AFR targets, I have a 40 minute log to run, but haven't)

The other point I was making, in a round-about fashion, is you only ever want to run VE Analyze on log files that were generated by the CurrentTune.MSQ that is running on the car.

Once you've done a VE Analyse and a "Save Tune" don't analyse any old logs against that tune (all logs are single-shot, basically) - if you've collected a bunch of logs from say, going to the shop, then some highway cruising, then maccas drivethrough, then some twisties, and they're all separate logs from the same CurrentTune.MSQ you can hold down CTRL and click all of the relevant logs when you're opening the logs in MLV, it will smoosh them all together, and you can create a big log out of a few short ones. The more data you can analyse in one hit, the more accurate it tends to be.

But once you've done VE Analyse and saved the tune and put it on the ECU, you need to get new logs otherwise it'll be analyzing incorrect data, and you'll have an incorrect VE table, and that's how I ended up a full point of AFR leaner than my target.

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby ManiacLachy » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:19 pm

Ah OK, I have seen this before, just never done it. But why would you do this instead of VE Analyse Live (VEAL)? (assuming you have a licenced version of TS)

Oh, and thanks for the tip about turning the laptop upside down, I hadn't thought of that!

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Cus » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:47 pm

MLV's VEA seems to produce better results than TS's VEAL, that's what how I *felt* anyway. I decided to back up my theory with some science.

I loaded a tune, made a copy of the file, then started Logging, and VEAL'n.

Went for a drive which includes an 80 / 100km/h downhill, and an 100km/h uphill, plus a little bit of 'round town traffic, about 12 minutes all up.

I saved the VEAL tune as one file, then ran the logfile over the MSQ from before I did the Veal.

Then I compared the differences in the two resulting files, to the original. Both were "normal" difficulty.

VEAL vs Starting point:
Image

VEA vs Starting Point:
Image


In short: I was correct. TS/VEAL makes much bigger changes than MVL/VEA, which seems to create big lumps in the VE table.


Buuuuuttt.... I've also just noticed an anomaly in the log, during a WOT blast my AFR reading was a solid 14.5 from 1400 to 6400, and the next WOT blast a few minutes later showed the expected readings, going from 13.3 > 12.8.

This could well have skewed my results, a lot. I'll work out why, looking back through some logs, it only looks like it's started yesterday....

Here we go! Down the rabbit hole! *puts on swim cap*

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby ManiacLachy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:01 am

Did you have VEAL set to "write to controller" while you did your run? If so, VEA would be trying to adjust what VEAL had already applied during the run :?

Something I do like though from you instructions was the point that with VEA you could load several logs and tune as one! Where as VEAL is each spurt, and doesn't give a big overall picture.

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby StanTheMan » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:06 pm

I'm trying to find VSS & AFR Erroir 1 im my MLV but cant find it. Ive got he upgraded version.

where am I not looking?
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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby ManiacLachy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:14 pm

Have you checked that your tune is set to include it in logging? I know AFR Error 1 should be there, alphabetically. Not sure of the full VSS name, it might be slightly different.

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Re: Megasquirt owners thread

Postby Cus » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:02 pm

Sorry, I did get off on a bit of a "it works for me, so it must work for everyone" tangent - VSS does require the input to be enabled in TS, and because you've got an NA6, you'll need to do some "full blown electrical work of huge proportions" ... not really, you'll need a length of wire, a reed switch, some kind of adhesive, some connectors, and about 2 beers to get the job done.

VSS will be called "VSS1" in MLV.

More details here for adding the reed switch to the NA6 cluster: http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=65390&start=225#p888328

AFR Error 1 should definitely be in the list, as long as it's being logged by TS. You can check what's being logged in TS by going to "Data Logging" -> "Logging Profiles" on mine the "Default" Logging profile has everything in the right column, so everything is logged. I'm not sure if that's a TS default, or a Cus default. Just put everything in the right-hand column, and you'll be peachy.


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