Endplates

Wheels, Suspension, Brakes & Tyres questions and answers

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greenMachine
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Re: Endplates

Postby greenMachine » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:24 am

I have been following this discussion for a while, it's time to chip in!

I too disagree with the notion that max AoA is best. There are two parts to this question. The first one is, what do I want out of the airfoil. Do I want maximum downforce, maximum efficiency (best trade-off between drag and downforce), lowest drag ... et cetera). The answers to these questions can be found in the performance curves for the particular airfoil involved. You can also put wool tufts on the airfoil and experimentally verify the AoA at which the airfoil stalls, though that won't help with determining the other points.

The second part of this question is, what AoA makes my car fastest. Obviously, experimentation is the only way to find this out. However, the answers to the above questions may assist this process, for example a very slow, twisty circuit you might want to start with maximum downforce, decreasing the AoA to see if lap times drop, and if they do continuing to decrease it until they stop dropping. Similarly, on a fast circuit you might start with the low drag setting, and progressively increase AoA until lap time stop dropping. If you have the performance curves for your airfoil, you will be aware that it continues to produce downforce even at positive angles of AoA, something that is not intuitively obvious to the layperson.

This of course totally ignores the critical question of car balance. Unless you are running totally free aero, or near enough to it (looking at you, time attack) front end aero is the limiting factor. As a result, it may be necessary to run sub optimal rear aero to minimise understeer and protect the front tires, or to keep the backend under control.

Regarding the comment above about endplate efficiency, some of you will be aware that I lost a Singular endplate at SMP. This happened because the endplate levered the bonded-in mounts out of the core of the wing, a result of the differential air pressure. Suffice it to say the replacement mounts are quite different. So for those who are playing at home, don't underestimate these forces.

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Dan
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Re: Endplates

Postby Dan » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:14 am

greenMachine wrote:Regarding the comment above about endplate efficiency, some of you will be aware that I lost a Singular endplate at SMP. This happened because the endplate levered the bonded-in mounts out of the core of the wing, a result of the differential air pressure. Suffice it to say the replacement mounts are quite different. So for those who are playing at home, don't underestimate these forces.

The additional leverage you created by running a much larger endplate, especially one that extends significantly further in one direction is probably the main cause and not the improvement in differential air pressure.

I take the point that people should think about having stronger mounts as they get larger endplates but breaking the wing mounts for the endplates doesn't prove it's more efficient.
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Magpie
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Re: Endplates

Postby Magpie » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:17 am

Agree 100%, whilst madjak's post was basic, if you understand its intent (and the people it was aimed at) it is correct.

Not all on here have a passion for aero. Maybe it is time to have an aero thread on here where topics can be discussed.

Aero like alignment can either be tailored to a track or set up for general use. For example on Sunday a comment was given that my car could use a little more camber on the right hand side due to the track being mainly right handers. Aero is the same, what do you want it to do and when.

MX5's are horsepower limited (at least some are) hence it can be used to overcome drag or speed. The greater the drag the more horsepower required, further the faster the speed the more drag (it is exponential with speed).

First off the drag coefficient needs to be determined for the car, this is easy with coast down testing. Once you know the HP of the car and the drag you can calculate the max speed possible based on the aerodynamics. Then the fun begins to decide how much HP to be given to generating downforce (harder to measure). Once this is decided then it is time to increase downforce without increasing drag. Again coast down tests.

As pointed out keeping the car balanced is difficult as a wing WILL overpower a splitter. Spring rates come into play when generating downforce as this adds 'weight' to the car and hence uses suspension travel. But, too high spring rates will make the ride harsh so again a compromise is needed.

Yes and do not underestimate the forces involved!

It is hard to know where to pitch the aero discussion on the forum. Do you aim for the hard core, the interested or the casual reader?

project.r.racing
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Re: Endplates

Postby project.r.racing » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:41 am

Magpie wrote:It is hard to know where to pitch the aero discussion on the forum. Do you aim for the hard core, the interested or the casual reader?
It is a discussion board. The conversation evolves as it goes. I dont see this discussion any different from others. You discuss what you wanna discuss. If one discussion to too hardcore, there is always another discuss which is less hardcore.


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