MX5 Challenge 2014

[evil_weevil]

Afternoon all!

So, more of a discussion for 2014's MX5 series for NSW.

There is a facebook group and discussion here: https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/285657638191382/

There has been some discussion towards page 23 onwards: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=53509
And of course a discussion on MRA round 4 thread which is more towards the last few pages here viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59298

Craig (mazmad) has made a good intro thread to get some info out to people who may be interested in racing their MX5s : viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59434

Two points to this thread:
1. We would LOVE to see new people come and race their MX5's. So we'd love to hear from you. Those who have done supersprints for a year + would you consider an MX5 racing series in 2014?
What would get you interested?
What would you like to see?
Whats stopping you?

2. Discussion on a potential 2014 series with classes and points.
What has been working verses what has'nt?
What would you like to see introduced?

If possible it would be good to get eveyones constructive feedback, comments and ideas. Of course lets keep it civil!

There is a discussion currently on lap time based classes such as the Wakefield and Winton 300 races and the MSC series.
Running the Mx5 series like this would be a good idea for people getting used to racing but knowing they'll be competing again similar cars but also gears them up for the 300's and MSC.

Based on the lap times, this was mentioned by Daniel Deckers - i.e. 4 categories perhaps 1.06-1.08, 1.08-1.10,1.10-1.12,1.12+.

I think once we get some more feedback we could compile it and get pen to paper for 2014 early!

Cheers,
Chris

[mazmad]

Good initiative Chris.

Another way for anyone wanting to see what it is all about, without leaping in boots and all and doing the required safety mods to their car, is to hire one for a day. There are several sources of well developed rental track cars now.

[david_syd_au]

Two points to this thread:
1. We would LOVE to see new people come and race their MX5's. So we'd love to hear from you. Those who have done supersprints for a year + would you consider an MX5 racing series in 2014?
What would get you interested?
What would you like to see?
Whats stopping you?

Chris,
I would consider racing in 2014,

The main factors that I would have to consider:
- experience - I have only done tracks days for 2 years, and 1 year of supersprints, and have never raced. I don't want to be a danger to myself or anyone else. Being eased into racing with tuition and guidance would be helpful.
- cost - the event cost is important, especially at Wakefield, as I usually factor in an overnight stay, as it is too tiring to travel from Sydney, compete and travel back in one day
- agro - the thought of my car getting damaged through the stupidity or mistakes of others does worry me, not only because of the cost
- time - priority is always family, work, home, then hobbies, in that order. With club track days and supersprint competing for "hobby" time, something would have to give to allow time for racing. A race series would have to offer something extra over those others types of events. I'm not saying it wouldn't, I just don't know.
- competition - for me it would be important to have at least one other regular with whom I could fairly compete, even if we were doing so at the back of the field.

David

[mazmad]

Hey David
I will leave the weevil to address the bulk of your points, my perspective on a couple of them:

As far as being a danger - you are required to use a P plate as a 'rookie' (was for 4 events, now extended to 12 months). This is kind of reassuring strangely enough as it should encourage others to give you more room.

Aggro/bingles. Yeah they happen, but the 2 serious incidents I have seen/heard of in the last 12 months involving mx5s weren't racing. 1 was a club day, and 1 a supersprint. In the racing over the last 12 months there have been 4 minor incidents involving mx5s at the events I have been to. Only 1 involved mx5 on mx5 action and was very minor, the others were mostly in super TT and all 3 involved mx5s on non-mx5s. But none was anywhere near as serious as the two in the non race events, no one hurt (other than pride) and all cars drive able.

[motomenace]

Hi,

The mx5 class is perfect to get started. I done two track days, got my license and went racing. My first ever event i had to qualify in the TT.
I have only ever had 1 real incident which was in TT but damage was minor New guard and front steering arm.

In the mx5 challenge i havent had any incidents i can remember, and cant remember when there was damage in an mx5 challenge race.
In terms of cost its the cheapest racing you can do for the lap times acheivable.

Once you have raced you want look back. Supers prints are fun but if you want some real adrenalin them the challenge is the perfect starting point.
I run mid pack, have a ball. We all respect each other and as a rule don't really like "hero" moves.
All the guys in the pits will lend a hand when ever needed, all to keep each other going. Its this kind of respect at meetings that makes it fun to go racing.

I drive from liverpool to wakefield then back again. Its about 1.5 hours for me

[motomenace]

Whos running this website??

Calander is up to date lol

http://www.mx5challenge.com.au/

[evil_weevil]

Two points to this thread:
1. We would LOVE to see new people come and race their MX5's. So we'd love to hear from you. Those who have done supersprints for a year + would you consider an MX5 racing series in 2014?
What would get you interested?
What would you like to see?
Whats stopping you?

Chris,
I would consider racing in 2014,

The main factors that I would have to consider:
- experience - I have only done tracks days for 2 years, and 1 year of supersprints, and have never raced. I don't want to be a danger to myself or anyone else. Being eased into racing with tuition and guidance would be helpful.
- cost - the event cost is important, especially at Wakefield, as I usually factor in an overnight stay, as it is too tiring to travel from Sydney, compete and travel back in one day
- agro - the thought of my car getting damaged through the stupidity or mistakes of others does worry me, not only because of the cost
- time - priority is always family, work, home, then hobbies, in that order. With club track days and supersprint competing for "hobby" time, something would have to give to allow time for racing. A race series would have to offer something extra over those others types of events. I'm not saying it wouldn't, I just don't know.
- competition - for me it would be important to have at least one other regular with whom I could fairly compete, even if we were doing so at the back of the field.

David

Hi David,
thanks for taking time out to reply to us. I appreciate your points and I can certainly relate to them also and understand where you are coming from. Apologies for the delay in answering them.

I'll reply here with some answers.

- experience : I feel your experience is right there! I did an interclub supersprint championship in 2009, in 2010 I only did 3 sprints and 2011 I jumped into MRA and MX5 challenge.
Craig was similar from memory?
We have a young bloke, Andy Harris. He is 18 and basically did 2 Marulan days from memory and jumped into MX5 challenge. He is now giving us a run for our money and has actually finnished higher than me in a few races!
Steve Green did his first year this year after doing sprints. I know John also took the jump in 2012 in his NA6 and looking to race his Nb now. Your current expeirence would certainly fit well.

- cost : Yes, this is a big factor and I agree and can appreicate where everyone comes from with this. Most of us are backyarders doing this for a hobby. I drive from the Central Coast to Wakefield so its an overnighter for me also. I did do the day drive last MRA and I was very tired after, thank god I didnt work monday!
Perhaps there could be something for like group accomodation?

- agro : There is always the risk of panel damge. In my 3 years of MX5 series I have had 2 hits. 1 in an MX5 race where Bill and I came together in round 3 this year, and the other was round 4 in the TT race where a Monaro hit me. There is close racing and the officials promote sportsmanlike racing and attitude. we could take the approach - you hit someone you go home like FoSC do. unless of course it is purely an incident of no ones fault which do happen. In the three years I think I have seen 2 other small incidents where people got a bit too close under brakes and no damage occured. As Craig said P Plates have to be displayed. this does give the other racers a 'heads up' to leave more room.

- time : Very big factor for all! most of us older blokes (I'm not as old as Craig!) we do have families and kids and of course they come first!
If we got a calendar out before end of the year would it be easier for you to commit to some meetings? I bring my family down for a bit of a get away and road trip. As for club days and sprints - As Matt (motormenace) says, supersprints are fun buit the real adrenalin is racing. I havent done a supersprint for well over a year asto me, it just does not cut the mustard anymore. In fact, some of the races we are battling in groups and you do get into open space meaning you are doing quicker lap times but also either catching the bloke in front or getting away from bloke behind.
I know Steve and Craig still attend club days however if I were in your position, I'd give up the sprints and continue club days and racing.

I hope I haven't missed anything and if I have let me know!

I got a text from Chris Gough last night which seems very positive also about 2014 so I'll call you this week Goughy (if you read this!)

So looking at the time based classes - how do people feel about that? David - that could be a good solution to you as you know you'll be competing against people similar lap times (which could be like a supersprint again!)

Cheers,
Chris

PS if any one has any other ideas, questions and comments please post up or feel free to PM me if you like!

[greenMachine]

I am interested, as stated elsewhere.

I would like to see a formal class structure (like last time), not times, and a control tyre.

Whatever the class structure, there needs to be a person who rules on cars' eligibility - this is key. No points if you are not 'scrutineered' as in class. If all you want to do is run with mates/someone doing similar times, this should not be an issue.

"No contact" rule - exclusions and/or grid penalties a la F1, possibly for both cars, applied by driving standards person.

I am prepared to commit to a program (subject to seeing it of course), depending on how the series is structured.

I will watch developments with interest.

[mazmad]

Whilst in a perfect world I would be happy competing under Cams classes, for the MX5s the issues I see are:

1.Who has the time to police cars' compliance with the classifications?

2. Differences in output within classes can vary greatly. This year for example there have been a bunch of cars which ostensibly are 2f (or would be with minor corrections, eg add passenger seat, remove aero). But not everyone has the inclination – or money – to build them to similar levels of output. So the guy who can’t afford to will always be a back marker in the class.

The time based approach seems to overcome these issues at least (not that I have raced under this approach).

[motomenace]

All good points...

No control tyres!! This just makes the racing more expensive. Unless a sponsor wants to give them away! I get my slicks second hand from the front guys, and still manage 1.10's. I bought new khumo treadeds and done the same times.
The way the mx5 class is currently, a control tyre wouldnt be any advantage at all!!

My thoughts are 1. A fixed Championship
2. Discount to those that commit pre season to all rounds
3. 3 classes, 4 will make it too cluttered. (1.05 -1.08) ( 1.08 - 1.11) (1.11- whatever)
4. At the end of the championship rather than a trophy id like to see a number plate given to first second and third of each catagory. Similar to what happens in go karts if you win a state or national title. ( actulally blue for state and green or yellow for national) would have been good if this was done i the aasa state titles

A thought for the contact rule, some of us dont care too much about rubbing, But understandably some have much nicer looking cars then me and some others. So why not make it anyone who doesnt want ANY contact just wear a p plate. If any driver comes in contact with a P plated vehicle be sent home immediate. Those not caring too much and like real close racing like the guys at the front allow minimal contact. Anything more than a bump or rub not bearing a p plate get a grid pen or point pen.

Colours could be used to distinguish classes. Ie black numer on white class 1 red number on white class two etc.

The best way i can describe how i feel about the mx5 challenge atm is if i described it as a soccer game. If you asked a group of people to play soccer on monday nights just for fun, rather than asking them to play on mondays in a soccer championship you would get heaps more intrest in the later! Its fun going racing but would be more fun if all the efforts through the year be rewarded at the end.

[oztrackdays]

Take the last round could be grouped like so.

GROUP 1
3 75 Daniel Deckers (NSW) Deckspeed Racing Mazda Mx5 2000 9 7 1:07.7850 0:00.4454
7 33 Luke Otten (NSW) "Sydney Auto Freight,Natsoft" Mazda Mx5 1840 9 8 1:09.0548 0:01.7152

GROUP 2
16 61 Steve Green (NSW) Mx5 Mania Motorsports Mazda Mx5 1840 8 4 1:12.2328 0:04.8932
17 98 Craig Durrant (NSW) Cpd Racing Mazda Mx5 1840 8 7 1:12.3387 0:04.9991
20 49 Bill Kinnane (NSW) Mazda Mx5 Nc 2006 2000 7 7 1:12.9848 0:05.6452
23 133 Chris Quick (NSW) Dvs Tuning Mazda Mx5 1840 6 4 1:13.3669 0:06.0273
30 70 Russell Harris (NSW) Papertrans Mazda Mx5 1800 7 7 1:14.4382 0:07.0986

GROUP 3
NIL

Only 7 entrants so 4 categories are too many.
3 is ideal but PEG them to the Pole Time to make the math easy
lets round up Daniels Time to 1:08 or 68 seconds

POLE SITTER 68 (+5% is +3.4 seconds, +10% is +6.8 seconds)
GROUP 1 (POLE-5%) 68 - 71.4
GROUP 2 (5-10%) 71.4 - 74.8
GROUP 3 (10%+) 74.8 - REST

You can pick a different percentage but round simple numbers work and this keeps people honest
if one of the faster cars doesn't turn up or has a problem on the day.

Lets look at the trophy race though from that same weekend.

1 75 Daniel Deckers (NSW) Deckspeed Racing Mazda Mx5 2000 10 11:29.8573 9 1:06.9045*
2 33 Luke Otten (NSW) "Sydney Auto Freight,Natsoft" Mazda Mx5 1840 10 11:35.8828 5 1:08.5509
3 61 Steve Green (NSW) Mx5 Mania Motorsports Mazda Mx5 1840 10 12:09.4024 3 1:11.5321
4 49 Bill Kinnane (NSW) Mazda Mx5 Nc 2006 2000 10 12:12.0396 3 1:11.7098
5 98 Craig Durrant (NSW) Cpd Racing Mazda Mx5 1840 10 12:15.1590 3 1:11.6045
6 70 Andy Harris (NSW) Papertrans Mazda Mx5 1800 10 12:18.3320 4 1:11.3124
7 133 Chris Quick (NSW) Dvs Tuning Mazda Mx5 1840 10 12:19.2428 9 1:11.8145

seems to be a fair match with many going quicker but no one quicker enough to change their group.

[mazmad]

Hey Matt lol at your idea of 'those happy for the crash derby put your hand up'. Love to see who puts their hand up

[motomenace]

I agree with everything except basing classes on the pole sitters time.
Makes things more complicated for competitors. Time divisions need to be set in stone at the start of the season. Basically from a championship point of view if you based the times from the pole sitter of each event then divsions would get screwed up. i.e if you run say 1.12's and no body faster shows up, then you would be class 1. Meaning that points scored for that round would be division 1 where normally if faster cars showed you would be division 2 or 3. Just complicates things. However if you use the same system and say base all the times say on 1.05 and set divisions from there, then competitors know what class they can run all year.
So at one round if no cars show up faster than you there would just be no division 1, just your division and beyond. Also what if the faster car has an issue in qualifying? and doesn't post a fast lap. Guess work would then need to be done to work out the time brackets for the field.

[Smokinscotty]

How about handicap starts? One class, less confusion, run what ya brung and a car running 12s could still win outright.
Cars very close to ready, Can't wait to get out there!

[mazmad]

Be great to see you out there Scotty.

Personally I like that qualifying means something and if you get it right, you get an advantage off the grid.

I have done handicap starts with FOSC and don't like them, but that's just my personal view. Being staggered around the track on the start...... I love the intensity of the grid starts, one of my favourite things about racing. It can also be hard handicapping someone enough in a longer race, front runners might be 7 seconds or so faster than the back markers...is over a lap of WP on a 10 or 12 lap race.