Page 1 of 1
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:22 pm
by deez
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a thicker swaybar at the rear --> more oversteer?
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:22 pm
by Okibi
Yes, can create more over steer
So stick a thicker one in the front too.
Come for a ride in my car (now it's back on the road) and you can see how the racing beats handle.
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:08 pm
by deez
I think the basic principle is, less oversteer = front swaybar > rear swaybar
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:58 pm
by Okibi
I'm too broke but i'll try and be there to snap some pics.
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:14 pm
by CT
You are getting oversteer because the NA cars are too soft in the chassis for the 336lb rear springs in the flex. Not even a monster front bar with no rear bar will overcome the balance issue you are having. You need to drop your rear spring rate to around 260lb which combined with a matched set of sways (can I suggest whiteline 3 way adjustable front and rear) you will be fine.
How do I know? Because that's how my NA race car was setup and I guarantee it will fix your issues. The rear is just too stiffly sprung. Kings can make the springs to suit too - that's who made my set.
Re:
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:42 pm
by veecee
CT wrote:You are getting oversteer because the NA cars are too soft in the chassis for the 336lb rear springs in the flex. Not even a monster front bar with no rear bar will overcome the balance issue you are having. You need to drop your rear spring rate to around 260lb which combined with a matched set of sways (can I suggest whiteline 3 way adjustable front and rear) you will be fine.
How do I know? Because that's how my NA race car was setup and I guarantee it will fix your issues. The rear is just too stiffly sprung. Kings can make the springs to suit too - that's who made my set.
What about when it comes to an NB?
Re:
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:43 pm
by veecee
Slugoid wrote:CT wrote:You are getting oversteer because the NA cars are too soft in the chassis for the 336lb rear springs in the flex. Not even a monster front bar with no rear bar will overcome the balance issue you are having. You need to drop your rear spring rate to around 260lb which combined with a matched set of sways (can I suggest whiteline 3 way adjustable front and rear) you will be fine.
What's the spring rate for the springs in the Tein SS? Just asking as I'm planning on some new coilovers in the near future.
As for the NA chassis being too soft, would a full underbody chassis brace (like the Flyin' Miata butterfly brace) solve the problem?
http://www.tein.com/mazda.html
Re:
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:58 pm
by StanTheMan
Nickb wrote:CT,
but will keep that in mind. Need to play around a bit to work out what the go is.
ROFLMHO
sounds almost like a response of Adam when God offered to make Eve.
ROFLMHO.
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:05 pm
by Okibi
STM get your linux arse into chat!
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:12 am
by manga_blue
You can take the rear sway bar off altogether on an NA with those spring rates. It'll be fine.
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:02 am
by CT
NBs are stiffer in the rear of the car especially so they are fine the stock Tein flex rates. Taking off the rear sway with standard tein springs on my NA did nothing to fix the balance issue - they need a lower rear spring rate or a stupidly stiff front spring rate, ie 500lbs. My NA had a welded in cage too and the rates were still too high. I doubt any underbody bracing will have the same affect as softening the rear springs - it's just too big a step.
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:36 am
by neil d
I run 250lbs in the rear and 400lbs in the front, the rear sway bar is connected by 2 zip ties. This is all in my 2f Na race car with a welded in cage.
Those springs are just way to stiff for a standard car.
a full set of king springs would be around $200.
Neil
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:06 am
by manga_blue
I agree with CT and Neil about those rear springs being over stiff but there's sttill no harm in trying disconnecting the rear bar. I have Teins with 5kg/4kg spring rates on my NA. Removing the bar balanced it fairly well. From memory you've got 7/6 in the Tein Flex - not all that different proportionally from mine. Only takes 10 minutes to do and at least it'd be better than now.
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:20 am
by manga_blue
Once you get close with to FRC with springs and sway bars then you can fine tune with the adjustables you already have at hand: damper rates (tightening them at one end is like a small increase in spring or bar stiffness), camber (more negative at one end can give relatively more grip there), toe out and tyre pressures. Just vary them one at a time and make them incremental changes, not big steps. It's fun to feel it all come together.