cams and roll bars and drifting :(

[Brian]

As this ruling is specifically for State level and above speed events I suggest that the MX5, Lotus Elises and Clubmans move from the State Superspint championships to multiclub events. These vehicles make up a significant proportion of the fields at these events.

There are a number of other series or even start another series.

Alternatively the MX5 club could expand its track days to include an event at EC or Oran Park on a Monday.

I like BIgdog's suggestion but taking our business elsewhere also talks volumes.

Cheers

Brian

[Brian]

Another thing is that Historics are excluded from the rules and yet Historic cars are inheritly more unstable than a modern convertible and are more likely to roll over.

In recent times a couple of historics drivers in open cars have been killed but they aren't legislated against.

Cheers

Brian

[greenMachine]

Brian, you make some good points.

However, we can try and hide from the real world for only so long. That is, these cars DO fall over, mainly because we push them hard, and accidents will happen - Murphys Law

Regardless, the steady tightening of safety requirements is not going to be reversed any time this side of the next ice age, the only question seems to be when it is going to squeeze us out. Sidestepping CAMS will certainly work for the short term, but is that a year, or ...? (I know that Wakefield management were very sensitive to this issue after a Sprite rolled there last year).

I can see a case for exempting unmodded, road registered cars on proper street tyres (not R-spec) from the requirement. But once you mod the car, you are playing in a whole new pond, and there are rules there - for your (our) protection, and the protection of our sport.

I think our energy should go into looking at how we can comply with the spirit and the purpose of the rules, because sooner or later these rules (or more draconian ones) will catch up with us.

I know the rules as framed do not give a lot of encouragement but, for starters, could we engineer a bolt-on extension to our BDs? Or how about a new design mounted on the bulkhead behind the seats, perhaps in such a way as to allow it to be raised and lowered (yes, the stays would be a challenge, but how hard would it be to make them better than the way our BDs are stayed now?).

I know the rules do not permit such things right now, but if we are talking road registered production cars - not formula !, or even clubmen (ie Lotus), we need to find a way of keeping our cars in motorsport, not just for today, or even next year, but whilever the tyres hold pressure, and the oil keeps pumping.

Where there is a will, ...

(steps off soapbox)

[bigdog]

I think our energy should go into looking at how we can comply with the spirit and the purpose of the rules, because sooner or later these rules (or more draconian ones) will catch up with us.

Yes but why should they greenMachine? I can build an ultralight airplane in my garage, and fly it with very little restriction and absolutely no safety whatsoever. Around 20 people a year are killed flying ultralight aircraft. Does the Government, Coroner, Police or anybody call for them to be banned?? No! Why, because there is no national body representing these people and they could never police the ruling anyway.

Motorsport on the other hand is a soft target. We have a national representative body Who are easily criticised by all the above authorities whenever anyone is injured or killed, despite the fact that statistics prove our sport is safer than most, including rugby league. At the bottom line here is an attitude that says risk is abhorent and unacceptable. Taken to its logical end CAMS will only be happy when our cars are speed limited and preceded by a chap at walking pace waving a red flag to warn others of our approach, because that my friends is a world without risk.

We live in a real world where we take significant risks every day. My daily commute along the M4 (three accidents tonight in 20 kms involving 12 odd cars, 2 yesterday, and at least one every other day) sees me exposed to far greater risk of death or injury than I could ever be exposed too on the race track, yet CAMS refuse to see and understand this, and continue to insist that we can't take responsibility for our own choices. Take a look overseas and you will note a vastly different attitude to this in most western nations, especially the UK. For some reason CAMS thinks we are special and different...

So, with that I will climb off my soap box and ask the nice men in white coats to take me back to my lovely padded room so I can't inadvertantly injure myself

[rain902]

hmm yeah it does doesn't it , wonder if thats cams legal would make it a lot easier on us tallies.

sure is, and it sure would

[rain902]

lol rain mate if you had a b/d roll bar and black seats you would have my car lol , oh except for my paint falling off everywhere.

those wheels are just getting to popular way its going i might dump the fast car theme and go for bling instead.

hehe whaddayamean? my paint is most definitely falling off, my car is a pressure wash free zone! gotta love japans acid rain!

my other wheels, and my roll cage...

[Ted]

I would contact the head scrutineer for CAMS in your state, and ask him for advice. Quite a few of the senior scrutineers will offer their time to check rollcages during the build stage, including measuring with driver and helmet in the car. They did that for my old 5 anyway. Then he supplied paperwork which I took back to CAMS, and he told me to make sure that the logbook has clearly marked in it that it is ROPS checked and approved. I never had a problem with that since, except for in Targa Tas where they questioned the 2\" rule, but one look in the logbook and they were OK with it. I only had std seats modified too to lower a bit. But its a bit of a silly rule as my nav is 3\" taller than me and its never checked with him.

With my current tin-top, I reckon the nav's head would get pretty close to the crossover diagonal under the lid. So I just have to make sure I have short navs or mount the seat lower.

[rain902]

i did contact cams and did talk to the guy in charge of the rules area, it was a case of to bad get a roof or a decent roll bar (well for drifting anyway).

lol rain i ment a roll bar on the silver mx lol , whats that roll bar in by the way.

its on my alfa.

the drifting / rollbar issues are odd - given that cams requires a 2NS (non speed event) licence for drifting. Ah well, such is life...

[Sheck]

I'm comming into this pretty late, but are all your drifting events in Sydney CAMS events?? We are pretty lucky up here in QLD as all the practice days are non-CAMS (we're covered/need a AASA licence) and as such we can get away with alot, i dont even think we need a roll bar for MX's?! I've never tried and i think i've been the only one drifting an MX, or a convertible for that matter, so i cant say for sure. The only time we need fully CAMS approved cars is when we enter a CAMS event, which is only the Drift Nat's.
And i think they are only just now thinking of making people install a fire extingisher!!!!
But yer we are a bit bubble wrapped with some of our practice sessions as they dont give us enough run up to get into the top of 3rd or mid 4th to get massive entries for some of the bigger corners

Either way it's pretty annoying in our grassroots level of motorsport.

Dave

[rain902]

I'm comming into this pretty late, but are all your drifting events in Sydney CAMS events?? We are pretty lucky up here in QLD as all the practice days are non-CAMS (we're covered/need a AASA licence) and as such we can get away with alot, i dont even think we need a roll bar for MX's?! I've never tried and i think i've been the only one drifting an MX, or a convertible for that matter, so i cant say for sure. The only time we need fully CAMS approved cars is when we enter a CAMS event, which is only the Drift Nat's.
And i think they are only just now thinking of making people install a fire extingisher!!!!
But yer we are a bit bubble wrapped with some of our practice sessions as they dont give us enough run up to get into the top of 3rd or mid 4th to get massive entries for some of the bigger corners

Either way it's pretty annoying in our grassroots level of motorsport.

Dave

errr - read your aasa insurance policy and the aasa regulations and see exactly what you are covered for my friend...

[rain902]

and dont read into that that I am a cams lover - i like and support the idea of competition in the marketplace and when it comes to cams vs aasa the product being sold is insurance and risk management - thats what you get when you fork out for a track permit.

[bigdog]

errr - read your aasa insurance policy and the aasa regulations and see exactly what you are covered for my friend...

Actually rain902, you'll be surprised to know that the policy AASA use is exactly the same as CAMS - Same insurer, same underwriter and same policy. One of my colleagues has researched this thoroughly and has looked through the documents first hand, so there is no difference as a competitor. The only thing AASA lack is a track record of what actually happens when something goes wrong - CAMS has long established procedures and actually looks after all parties pretty well when ther is a serious accident, AASA are an unknown quantity in this regard.

The bummer is that under these policies the maximum payout available to a permanently disabled competitor is $64000, which is nowhere near enough to cater for said person's needs... and I have not found anyone who will offer private insurance for on track injury, so self insuring seems to be out of the question as well... so lets just pray that nobody we know gets hurt out there!

[irwin83r]

god i hate insurance companies

insurance and government.. have to be two of the biggest pains in the bum out there... eager to take your money but not willing to pay out when requiered